lifeblood: listlogs: 2002v05n190-news

ig-news-digest       friday, september 13 2002       volume 05 : number 190

today's subjects:
  [ig-news] new spitfire tour info!                        []
  [ig-news] great tickets to see the ig in nj this sunday  [dan rydell <dan_]
  [ig-news] amy ray "queer and fucked"  [joey krimple <shorje1973@insightbb.]


date: thu, 12 sep 2002 11:57:43 edt
subject: [ig-news] new spitfire tour info!

[sherlyn's note: this message was originally sent to the indigo
girls mailing list at]

amy & emily will be participating in the new spitfire tour, according to the
website (  the info was just added, so there are no
other details available, according to the organizer.  

**november 11 b university of mississippi**
location: univ of mississippi
time: 7:30pm
tickets: $3 with student id, $10 without - get at student union
venue: fulton chapel
speakers: amy ray & emily sailers (indigo girls), jello biafra, howard lyman


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date: thu, 12 sep 2002 09:54:41 -0700
from: dan rydell <>
subject: [ig-news] great tickets to see the ig in nj this sunday

[sherlyn's note: this message was originally sent to the indigo
girls mailing list at]

i apologize for mailing the whole list with this, but my friends and i can't go, and i have really good tickets (row d and row f, section 103...which i think is 4th/6th row near center) that i need to sell for the indigo girls concert at the pnc center in new jersey on sep 15th.

face value is $50 per ticket and i have 2 pairs of 2 together.

i'm not looking to make a profit on these, i just don't want them to go to waste (and i'd rather not lose the $200 total i spent on them).

please email if you are interested.  i will sell them to the best offer i get probably by midday friday (with preference given to anyone who can pick them up in nyc, or who'll get me a t-shirt or a boot or something for selling them great seats at face-value).

sorry to bother y'all, but time was running out and i hadn't found anyone who could go any other way...

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date: thu, 12 sep 2002 21:31:13 -0400
from: joey krimple <>
subject: [ig-news] amy ray "queer and fucked"

[sherlyn's note: this message was originally sent to the indigo
girls mailing list at]

from the official site:

on august 18th, 2002 the new york times magazine ran an article written by
david hadju entitled, 3queer as folk.2 this is my response to the article,
with contributed comments from emily saliers, dana powell, russell carter,
and susan faludi.

queer and fucked

women always have to ruin everything. now we are strangling the life and
diversity out of folk music. as if men are not allowed to participate. you
would think lesbian folk musicians are sailing up the radio charts and
selling millions of records, instead we9re fighting the same battles we9ve
fought for years. in fact, the world of singer/songwriters is still
dominated by men. comparisons of record sales and radio play between male
and female singers/songwriters clearly demonstrates this. shawn mullins,
david gray, or john mayer-these guys had more radio play and more record
sales in the last few years then any lesbian i know. sure there is a queer
folk scene out there and luckily, it9s thriving, but only in the most
marginal way. it9s never really a good time in the mainstream music industry
to be a queer girl with a guitar. i can look at the trajectory of my own
career and see that the more political the indigo girls have become, the
less radio play and press we have received. if anything is going to limit
the folk music scene, it9s under-reported articles like the one written by
david hadju for the new york times magazine.
when approached by hadju to do an interview, i was excited and flattered. we
were told that he was writing about the importance of women in folk music.
when he showed up for the interview, he presented his profound discovery
that folk music is the voice of the lesbian community and he wanted us to
tell him why. hadju9s musings were so flawed that we spent most of the
interview refuting all of his theories and trying to steer him towards a
more intelligent, politicized, and nuanced perspective. most of the women
that hadju brought up during the interview were not actually gay, which
seems to be par for the course in a society that assumes that any strong
woman must be a lesbian. still, he seems to think that what it means to
identify as a gay woman is a singular and homogenous experience. he claims,
3folk music carries deep-rooted associations with what it means to be gay.2
in fact, the whole article rests on this ridiculous assumption. why not
interview lesbian punk, jazz, hip-hop, rock, or bluegrass musicians? there
are plenty of them. as i pointed out to hadju during our interview, i know
more gay women punkers then folkies. the riot girrl punk movement did more
to change and propel the women9s music scene then anything in recent
history; it inspired a whole host of young artists in every tradition. young
lesbians know the butchies, not cris williamson.
hadju completely missed the opportunity to situate the discussion of women9s
music in a larger social context which would recognize the oppression of
lesbian/gay/bi/trans sexuality. being a woman, being a gay woman is socially
very different from being a straight man. there has been a need for people
of second or third class social statuses to create separate spaces for
community and expression. hence women9s music festivals, the riot girrl
movement, and now nationwide ladyfest events. the failure to point out the
social context of why some women would be drawn to others with similar
experiences or to explore why such a so-called genre of 2women9s music2
exists in the first place, is a failure to illustrate the bigger picture.
according to hadju9s article, in addition to lesbians limiting the growth of
folk music, they are also damning it with mediocrity. what if a few
mediocre, straight, male rock bands were used to epitomize a whole scene?
would we blame pearl jam for creating a limited genre and encouraging bad
musicianship in others? all one has to do is flip through commercial radio
channels to see that mediocrity in every form but gay is being sliced,
diced, and marketed to us all in the name of advertising dollars. this
rampant mediocrity is a symptom of a corporate music empire that encourages
segregation of audiences for reasons of profit rather than community.
corporate radio with its big advertising dollars selling nickleback and
budweiser to the boys, and britney spears and clearasil to the girls. we all
have to fit nicely into a demographic and it better be one that sells
something besides music. profit driven segregation is not the same as a
marginalized woman9s music scene discovering that it has to come up with its
own infrastructure because there is not one already available. all gay women
do not choose to have a separate space, many of us are driven to it.
but just as all lesbians don9t like folk music, all straight, white males
don9t listen to metal. sure you can go to a korn show and see lots of boys-
because what we listen to and who we feel comfortable going to see live can
be two different things. boys may feel more comfortable than girls at a korn
show; everything in the way the band is marketed screams maleness. i recall
going to one of the last performances of rage against the machine and
spending most of the time fighting off punches in the mosh pit. i know many
lesbians that count rage as a major influence in their lives, but i didn9t
see them at the show. this alienation is another result of the
demographically driven marketing of music. but while gay and straight bands
can be marketed in equally alienating ways and niche creating ways, there is
a vast difference between the two. the marketing dollars for a band like
korn are spent by major labels with the bands blessing in a positive,
aggressive way at mainstream radio and rock press, and this equals record
sales and huge audiences. and while korn may suffer in some ways from
becoming more about their image than their music, gay musicians suffer more,
because as far as the mainstream rock media is concerned, our image is our
handicap. gay musicians aren9t marketed to the mainstream as, 3hurray!
here9s a new lesbian band, aren9t they cool?2 instead, we are the subject of
painstaking scrutiny and strategizing to figure out how to overcome our
image. being gay is not considered an asset at most record labels, indie or
major. when the record label finally takes advantage of the gay press, its
because the mainstream press won9t touch the band. gay press coverage is the
last resort for most publicist. in the indigo girls9 case, when we were
ready to confront and support our sexuality in the press, it took epic
records years to catch up. epic simply preferred not to respect or cater to
the gay press, but when the mainstream media stopped paying attention to us,
epic started returning the gay media9s phone calls. and while we may
appreciate it and see it as an accomplishment to be on the cover of out
magazine, the label doesn9t; it would never rate the same as a feature in
when studied and written about by hadju, the 3lesbian market2 becomes
anthropology. we become a selection of quotes taken out of context to fit
nicely into a theory, as if we aren9t present or vocal enough to write about
ourselves. hadju treats the audience for music by women just like
advertisers do: suddenly it becomes a 3market2 with no heed to the diversity
among women and the men who participate. while the gay demographic may be
shamelessly exploited as a new market by some corporations, it9s not fair to
imply that we are exploiting each other. when gay musician9s garner a gay
audience or are mentioned by the gay media, we are not gloating in the
dressing room about what a bunch of suckers gay people are; we appreciate
their presence and attention and we realize that they are there, not just
because they feel comfortable in an otherwise homophobic and sexist world,
but also because the music is valid.
a little success goes a long way towards a backlash. hadju and the
mainstream media9s response to the growing women9s folk scene is reflective
of society9s anxiety that women-who-don9t-need men are taking over and
leaving men behind. i am tired of reading articles about the new gay and
female infusion into pop culture and how good we have it. as if corporate
sponsors didn9t pull their dollars from the 3ellen show2 or as if almost
every morning radio show doesn9t use gays and women as the subjects of their
stupid jokes. maybe the movement for acceptance is making some progress on
the street level, but it9s not being reflected by the media. we are still
distilled down to the demographic of our audience and the particulars of our
sex lives. our music is not written about positively or for the inherent
worth of the music, our progress as songwriters is never noted, and we just
aren9t taken seriously as artists.
amy ray

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end of ig-news-digest v5 #190

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